ONDIVORCE GENERAL AND CONTACT MESSAGEBOARD
[ADD YOUR COMMENTS] [LIST ALL SUBJECTS]
Subject: im slowly learning
Posted By why? on 01-01-2010
im slowly learning that i dont need to worry about some things as much as i have.
you will remember that i was upset and shocked at h for not wanting to see the children over christmas and choosing instead to go away over christmas. i have to say that the children and i had a lovely christmas and in all honesty, probably had a more enjoyable and relaxing christmas in comparison to previous years when h was at home.
we spent the whole day in our pyjamas, playing with toys and board games, setting toys up etc and the children didn't appear to miss their dad at all, which i thought they would. they were too busy playing with what santa brought them to notice.i was concerned at how the children might feel and i do still believe it was inconsiderate and selfish and i do still think it would have been nice for them to have a change of scenery and go to their dads later in the day and stay overnight but it certainly wasn't a problem for them.
in a sense it would have been a shame to expect them to get dressed and leave behind all their toys they were having fun with so i can now see i didn't have to worry. it would have been nice thoyugh if they could have seen him on boxing day or the day after at least but we filled our days easily and the main difference i found was that christmas was all about the children this year without me feeling resentment with h because i was doing everything myself. h used to put the tv on immediately and sit all day watching tv and getting children to do the same which we did too but not until they had plenty time to enjoy what they hadreceived from santa and they never asked for the tv at all. the christmas music i always play whilst they are opening their toys was asked by my litle boy to be left on 'because it was christmas day' which was lovely.
so now i am more relaxed about not having them on christmas day because i know they will enjoy their day whether its just with mum or just with dad.
however, lets not get carried away. im still not inacceptance with h suggesting that he take them to poland next christmas because this will mean that i dont see them at all for several days over christmas which i would not want. i also dont like the idea of the children wakening up in unfamiliar surroundings in someone elses home when all they want to do is jump out of bed, run downstairs and see what santa has brought them. thats still a no no for me.
Follow up comments
Added By Kat007 on 02-01-2010
however, lets not get carried away. im still not inacceptance with h suggesting that he take them to poland next christmas because this will mean that i dont see them at all for several days over christmas which i would not want. i also dont like the idea of the children wakening up in unfamiliar surroundings in someone elses home when all they want to do is jump out of bed, run downstairs and see what santa has brought them. thats still a no no for me.
I hate to say this why?
But the above statement hmm, just so that you can relax about it your kids will not worry whether they are in another country/house on christmas morning they will still jump out of bed and run down stairs to see what Santa bought no matter where they are. I thought the same the first year I didn't see the kids xmas morning and they did exactly as I expected which was exactly the same as they did at home get up run down stairs bagger dad to get up and opened their presents and had a lovely day(not this year D had a shit day and wanted to come home).
It will all settle but you have to be the one to show them it is ok to be excited next year obviously don't start yet as it's too early but they may have concerns nearer the time or they may not, just encourage them to enjoy xmas with their dad, that's all we can do.
Happy new year and may it be a good one :)
Added By why? on 02-01-2010
hi kat.
yip. plenty of time til next year and i admit that although i have concerns about them being somewhere unfamiliar etc, it is also about me. however, i dont think its wrong to think about myself now and then. i dont think its right or fair that h take them out the country and i not see them at all for several days when they are so young at a time most parents really want to see their children. id never have done that to h and even less so if i knew he was going to be completely on his own.
i still think there is plenty of time for himto do that with them when they are older.
however, we are just entering into a new year and next christmas is a long way off and h may even have a different view by then. plenty of morepressing issues to consider in the meantime. hope you have a better year. after my mums short diagnosis with cancer and losing her unexpectedly, then losing a pregnancy, followed by investgations of my own for unexplained cysts and h removing me from the medical incurance whilst leaving the rest of the family on it, then my dad being diagnosed with cancer and me going through a divorce, i can't see how my year can be any worse.
did you ever find a new home or are you still looking?
Added By obiwan_kenobi_again on 02-01-2010
' because this will mean that i dont see them at all for several days over christmas which i would not want'
the last time i saw my kids was the 8th of December and I wont see them again until the 8th of Jan...
I hope...
dont mistake the kids mood as not missing him... they dont have a choice do they? its not in their hands- its down to you and him... if either of you choose to ignore or block contact- what can the kids do but adapt?
I think a lot of RPs fall into this trap...
anyway... sounds like you had a nice time...
Added By Teadrinker on 03-01-2010
My ex also chose not to see our son at Christmas for the first time. Usually our son spends the morning and lunch with me and then goes to his dad's. Ex has talked of going away for Christmas in the past but never actually done it until now. Our son was unhappy about it and didn't want his dad to go.
But in fact Christmas Day was fine, just the two of us. We had a really relaxed day and ended up opening most of our presents on Boxing Day as we hadn't got around to opening presents on 25th. It was nicer than previous years where I've rushed lunch to get our son to his dad's for the afternoon and his dad always makes an excuse for bringing him home after just a few hours anyway. Our son was fine about it too.
I think most parents want to see their children at some time over Christmas but it isn't fair when one parent says they can't possibly be without their kids over Christmas. One of the consequences of having separated parents is that the children mostly see their parents separately, so that might mean doing alternate years of having them at Christmas.
Added By why? on 03-01-2010
hi. yes. i can see that now. i agree with obi however that they do have to adapt if one parent chooses not to see them. i didnt think i could go christmasday without seeingthem but i feeldifferently now having seen how much they still enjoyed it. but i still believe that given a choice they would at this age prefer to see both of us on christmas day just to share their excitement at what santa brought etc. it probably helped that this year they were told in advance that h would not be seeing them whereas last year he let them down at the last minuteon christmas eve with them crying.
i would still prefer that they go to their dads in afternoon and stay overnight on christmas but h refuses to do this but as long as it doesn't upset them or ruin their day thats all that matters, i guess. h says he wont see his children for only a few hours even though its not a few hours, it would be 24 hours. he gives the same excuse on other contact dates that may require children to return home by end of the day, even though he would have them the entire day from morning til night, he will say he is not coming for them because he will not have them for just a few hours, which is difficult to explain to the children. strangely enough, on a thursday, when he does only have them a few hours, after school til the school morning on friday, he doesn't use the same excuse. this is part of the schedule that he proposed for seeing the children. its apparent that its a bit of a game to him and is the excuse he uses when things are not exactly as he wants.
the shedule is fine. i have no problems with it but as you all know, circumstances and events sometimes mean that we both need some flexibility to accomodate whats happening in the childrens lives. eg: birthday parties, special dates etc. and in order to accomodate these it means we each have to make sacrifices orshare responsibility in getting the relevant child to the party/event etc. and i go out of my way to make sure they get to go to these things and make sure contact is maintained. h tends to use them as an excuse not to see children at all.
regarding christmas. although i now feel comfortable about not having to see the children on christmas day, i would still expect to see them on boxing day for example and this would not be possible if he takes them out the country and i wouldn't see them on christmas eve either. i sympathise with obi fornot seeing his children and i personally dont think that is right.
i realise kat said that the children would still jumpout of bed and run to daddy to ask tosee what santa has brought and that may be true and i hope it is. however, they will be in unfamiliar surroundings, in someone elses house and that person/persons willnot be familiar to children either. my little boy isparticularly shy with adults and this has been reported by his nursery and now his school and it affects his communication and need for expression. i would worry about this but by next christmas he will be another year older and may be different.
i guess we will just have to wait til next year and see what happens. hopefully h will take them to poland a few days after christmas rather than during. time will tell.
Added By evr on 03-01-2010
Its just a day, and this gets easier once the children get older. If you don't have your children on Christmas Day itself, then whatever day you have them becomes Christmas Day.
My ex sees our children less and less now they are older and make their own arrangements. He saw them just before Christmas for the afternoon and probably won't see them again before they go back to college/uni. Recently my youngest was vry ill with flu and had to go to hospital. I informed her dad and he sent back a text wishing her well - didn't come to see her. He also missed her 18th because he had to go and nurse his girlfriend in Edinburgh who had a bad back, lol.
I think the girls have come to terms with him being a different sort of dad to the dad that other people might have, which is part of growing up. I've also had to come to terms with the fact that I can only do so much to compensate.
Added By obiwan_kenobi_again on 03-01-2010
I know I am a bit dumb- most coppers are ;-)
but I can't help but think that there are better ways to do things...
I know my ex won't change... I hope yours will...
Added By obiwan_kenobi_again on 03-01-2010
again- another fall down with our legal system around family courts... I mean- what can a RP do if NRP decides to be an arse and stop seeing the kids?
I know some do it because they find it 'too distressing' or 'need their own space right now...' they need to grow up...
the ones that do it to spite the other parent (by proxy) ... need to do a bit of unpaid work - as directed by a judge...
Added By EnglishRose on 03-01-2010
What can the RO do? nothing much. Children have no rights at all to make a parent see them. The parent has at least a nominal right to apply for contact but the child has no rights at all. The reverse of supposedly most of family law. We could have a default position of 50/50 on divorce particularly where both parents work full time like it or not. Would force fathers to do the washing, deal with tantrums and sick, sort out school bags, get the child to nursery or check the nanny had turned up at home, rush back from work, pay for child care when the child was with them. It would also ensure fathers knew they had that 50% time with the children on divorce and you could only depart from it if you got a special court order.
My chidlren's father has never in 6 years had a conversation with me about contract even before we split up which is very rare and I've certainly never had a request from him to see them on Christmas day. given how weird he is the oldest ones said they would only visit his parents this Christmas if he wasn't there at the time and I helped them sort out the date accordingly. So now their 5 hours a year in his presence, even that has gone this year.
Added By obiwan_kenobi_again on 03-01-2010
so wrong...
I like the 50-50% idea... but I would guess lots of RPs wouldnt...
Added By EnglishRose on 03-01-2010
Tough... make them get used it, develop a culture where chidlren have two parents before and after divorce given that most women even with under 5s work these days. Our contact rules are based on upper class England circa 1880.
Added By obiwan_kenobi_again on 03-01-2010
I am on your side here ER... but it wont happen in a million years...
since most RPs are ladies- any law that gives the perception of bias against ladies- is political suicide...
Added By Teadrinker on 03-01-2010
I like the idea of 50-50 too and I'm not sure why a resident parent would object to the other parent doing more of the care (other than financial reasons perhaps) - I certainly wouldn't object! ER, I think women with under 5s mostly work part time not full time.
I also think a 50-50 arrangement where both parents work must be hard because they each need to be able to share the same childcare (so they'd need to live near each other and spend similar hours at work and travelling to/from work) or they'd each need to arrange childcare every other week which you probably can't get. Also it's likely to involve changes that may not be practical even if both parents worked full time before separation, because often they relied on each other to help with the children, such as one being available before school and the other not. TBH I'm surprised any parents manage 50-50. Most people couldn't afford a nanny in their home, ER. Even that wouldn't have worked for you with 50-50 care after separation, would it? If your ex had done 50% of the care and taken responsibility every other week, he'd need his own afterschool and perhaps before school childcare arrangement in his own home.
Even if you could force parents to do 50-50 you can't force them to do everything they should do in that time. I've often heard of a child arriving at the other parent's having not washed for a week, medicines not given, dirty clothing handed to the other parent, one parent toilet training and the other doing different things so that there is no consistency. You can't force any parent to look after their child so I don't see how you can ever force a 50-50 arrangement.
Added By sometimesitdoesn'twork on 03-01-2010
The biggest obstacle to sharing care 50:50 after parents separate is the lack of shared care 50:50 before separation. Recently the Centre for Social Justice's review of family law expressed concerns that children who are most likely to be in a shared residence/equal time arrangement may actually be those where parents are most conflicted and hold onto a notions of rights rather than putting the child’s interests as the paramount consideration - someone must have read my earlier posts ;) Also it was said an expectation of equal time makes it more difficult to negotiate practical arrangements. That I think rather puts an end to a presumption of 50:50 shared residence anytime in the near future.
Added By Teadrinker on 03-01-2010
Yes, I think (and I've posted this before lol) that men should stop complaining that they want 50-50 after separation and start being more involved with their children when they are in a relationship with the mother. So if 50-50 shared care in a family with two adults and kids becomes the norm, then maybe the courts will move towards that kind of arrangement after separation.
Added By obiwan_kenobi_again on 04-01-2010
in my case the biggest obstacle was her... lol
Added By why? on 04-01-2010
fat chance of getting an effective, consistent 50/50 contact with h. if he cant manage the little time he has them now then how on earth would he manage 50/50. in factr themore often he has them the more often we are all messed around not knowing whats hapenning where or when. no thanks. we never shared 50/50 when married either. children need consistency and a sense of belonging - not a whole lot of coming and going and standing on their heads. will be easier when they are older because they will simply decide when they want to visit their dad.
Added By EnglishRose on 06-01-2010
We did have 50/50 care of children for 19 years of marriage as we both worked full time with 5 children so post-divorce that would not have been different. Anyway it's not likely to happen but more and more fathers do more and more at home with children (and even my father in the 1960s did all the night bottle feeds, cleaned the house on Saturdays, took us out on Sundays - I don't know why women tolerate sexist men really - I was certainly never brought up like that).
| 
