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Subject: section 47 ASSAULT
Posted By IWISH on 20-01-2010
Hi guys,
some help please...got charged with section 47 assault today after 7 months of police investigation.
Assualt allegedly took place on a Thursday in April 2009. My ex said I hit my son when he actually fell on a computer chair whilst he was fighting with younger brother. I was angry before this incident but didn't hit him. He had a minor faint bruising to side of his face and had been hit with a toy the day before and had some marks on the other side as well.
Ex asked for wellfare check for no reason. This was unannouncedand was done on Sunday night (3 days after)
Ex manipulated kids to say I hit him..now all kids saying I hit him and they have a doctors report which states the injuries are consistent with what my son is saying.
I dropped kids off on Monday and she must have reported this on Tuesday. How can the police be even taking this further when their own police officers saw the kids the night before I dropped them off? The police said everything is fine and were a bit angry that she lied to them that I had not been responding to her calls. I produced phone detailing text and calls from my phone to EX.
recap:
Thur - assault (Allegedly) and mentioned no other day
Sun - police wellfare check (first one ever and not related to assualt)
Mon - Drop kids off
Police are saying there was bleeding and cuts to his face on Mon/Tue when the incident was reported. If there were then how come the police visit on Sun didn't pick them up.
what next? any advice greatly appreciated.
Follow up comments
Added By Jools123 on 20-01-2010
Get yourself a very good lawyer now! From experience the law is an ass and you need to be well represented. Don't cut costs!!!!!!!!!!
Added By obiwan_kenobi_again on 20-01-2010
well to be completely correct- the Police arent... the Crown Prosecution is...
they wont go to court unless they have enough evidence to be about 70-80% sure of a conviction.
your children will have been video interviewed - unless they are old enough to have statements taken in the presence of an appropriate adult- mum...
There are two witness' saying 'dad hit him/me' and a professional witness saying 'the injuries are consistent with testimony'...
Get professional legal advise- NOW... please tell me you had a solicitor when you were arrested...
Sec 47 assault against your own child is a very serious matter- not only can you end up with schedule one status, and a criminal record for assaulting a child- the family court will dice you the next time you try to get more access etc...
anyway...
Added By iwish on 20-01-2010
obiwan you are right but does it take 8 months to decide whether to charge me is questionavble how much evidence they have.
The police visit was 3 days after the alleged assault they didn't see anything so how have the injuries become so severe they were picked up the next day?
initially my ex just failed to turn up twice to hand over kids for access. Then I got worried and contact police, county court and evetually found out that my ex had put in a case and social services were involved. For god sake she could have atleast told me. It was costing me £187 for all of us for each access. EX did this twice knowing I was travelling 3 hrs to get there as she is 160 miles away.
It was me who was chasing for this as no one was saying anything. Eventually police invited me to copshop and after a while started to read out my rights..it was then I realised something was up. Until this point I didn't know what was going on as I had not seen kids for 2 months.
I asked for solicitor and they went through 2 interviews recorded.
Added By iwish on 20-01-2010
do I have to notify my employer that I have been charged?
Added By Jools123 on 20-01-2010
No - innocent until proven guilty. If however they are good employers it might be worth having a quiet word and explaining you have a few issues but you are hoping they come to nothing as the information is ill founded.
Added By iwish on 20-01-2010
work for local council..I have told my immediate boss but not officially notified my emplyer "Council".
Added By Jools123 on 20-01-2010
I would say you've done all you need to....
Added By iwish on 20-01-2010
after a conviction hope not do police notify your employer?
Added By Captain Oates on 20-01-2010
If you have no criminal record you can get legal aid to pay for the solicitor.
Added By Stuart on 21-01-2010
If you are convicted then I think you will be in breach of your contract of employment if you do not tell your employer.
Hopefully it wont come to this but keep in mind that if you didnt tell them and later it came to light that the council was employing a person with a conviction for assaulting a child it could bring the council into disrepute which is sackable in any language...
Always best to come clean...
Fingers crossed that it wont come to that...
Added By obiwan_kenobi_again on 21-01-2010
Yes it does- the reason it takes so long with adult v child assaults is because there is so much more work to do (I worked in the same dept so I do have some 1st hand experience of why etc..).
We take a stance of 'believe the child' because although children are capable of making stuff up- the consequences of not believing them can be a 'baby p'.
Also, since the main witness' are children - all have to be video'd most forces only have a couple of video suites suitable for children- even big forces. Given that yours is not the only case the Police have on their plate- the officers in the PPU have to juggle things around quite a lot. So, it can (and does) take months to gather the evidence.
We have all been through the 'ex wife denies access' routine- mine stopped contact for 3-months (initially...). That is irrelevant to your assault case.
As I indicated above- it is very important you seek the advise of a criminal solicitor now. They will have disclosure of the evidence- and can start looking for defenses, mitigations and ways to discredit the professional witness you have against you.
One line I would pursue is with the two professional witness' that have seen your child BEFORE the assault had occurred but AFTER you had last contact with them.
If they put in statements to the effect that the child was mark/blood free it may cast serious doubt on the CPS case. Just a thought...
Also, are there witness' to the child v toy assault? if there are - big probs for the CPS..
However, reading between the lines here- you contacted the Police because wifey failed to turn up???
did you think the kids were in serious danger?
you dont think that this is a revenge attack? you call the cops on her- so she gets the cops on you?
why didnt she tell you? err... because she hates your guts? wild guess...
no offence- really , but wake up please... this lady is out to get you- so if i were you I would up the ante a bit- get a sol.
Added By iwish on 22-01-2010
Thank you for your input guys much appreciated.
Obiwan,
"One line I would pursue is with the two professional witness' that have seen your child BEFORE the assault had occurred but AFTER you had last contact with them."
It was the other way round. The welfare check police officers saw the children 3 days AFTER the assault !! which was the night before the kids were dropped off.
recap:
Thur - assault
Sun - police wellfare check 8pm
Mon - Drop kids off
Mon/Tue - matter reported?
Just been to solicitor today...sameone who came when I got arrested. Not sure if I have the confidence with this one as so much is at stake. If things go bad I could end up in prison and worse still never see kids again.
I do have my nephews as witness for the toy assault.
Added By iwish on 22-01-2010
Captain Oates what do you mean by your statement "If you have no criminal record you can get legal aid to pay for the solicitor"
Went to sol today who said you have to go through legal aide applications and its all about salary/savings/assetts and nothing to do with past criminal record.
Added By Captain Oates on 22-01-2010
On family law, legal aid is about income.
On criminal law, if you have no record, then that is grounds enough for legal aid either at the police station, at court, or inbetween, when faced with a criminal investigation.
Don't believe me, ask a criminal (not family) lawyer.
Speaking from (bad) experiences, where I have found what I say here to be the case.
Added By iwish on 22-01-2010
Thanks for the info captain...I do appreciate it.
My last visit to my solicitor which was couple of days ago was asking for wage slips, rent docs, CSA payments and council tax letters.
He said this was to evaluate whether you will get funding otherwise you will have to pay for us to represent you.
Can you provide more information on what you say so that I can give this to my solicitor !!
Added By Simes 2p on 23-01-2010
Legal Aid has absolutely no relationship to previous convictions.
Some guilty scumbags have criminal records as long as your arm, even the long arm of the law, and get legal aid because they are entitled to it. Its related to income.
If her case is dismissed at half time (after the prosecution evidence) you can claim costs. You can probably claim costs anyway providing you are found not guilty.
A Sol is provided free of charge at a police station if you ask for one, regardless of income. It is essential that you ask for one, and you should be wary of giving no comment responses.
Added By Captain Oates on 23-01-2010
I admit I did ask for and got the solicitor at the police station - a few times, one of which dragged on for a while with him still being instructed until it was dropped.
So Simes, is my statement below ok for next week or am I going to go mad with another massive bill for tens of thousands of pounds which will cripple me and my life please?
Please be a bit gentle with this response as I am a bit sensitive on this. Is not being able to get the time off work an appropriate reason?
Added By Simes 2p on 23-01-2010
CO,
It all depends what you said to the Court, why you didn't turn up, and what proof do you have that you were unable to turn up.
They can't find against you if you made the effort to let them know.
I don't know the facts, but it doesn't seem right to me.
If you couldn't get time off work, then ensure you have a letter from your boss to confirm that they wouldn't let you go. I htink you said somewhere that an important project was nearing completion. make sure it is mentioned in the letter otherwise it just appears as if your boss is covering for you.
Added By iwish on 23-01-2010
Thanks for the clarification.. I thought the same.
In terms of claiming costs, who do you claim from? It it's from ex she's never ever worked in her life and is benefits so no point.
Added By Captain Oates on 23-01-2010
Yes, I have boss' letter and did try to let them know in advance. Thanks for that.
Sorry iwish, but I am not sure on criminal law legal aid. I do not think it is the same as family law legal aid. Sorry, but I think I do disagree with simes on this in that I think you can get legal aid for criminal law solicitors if you have no criminal record. I am not sure, though and is worth checking by calling a criminal law solicitors. They are in the yellow pages or internet. I have found them to be very interesting characters, quite nice people actually. Help people when they most need them. A criminal lawyer is a bit of a nicer lawyer than matrimonial specialists I think maybe.
Added By Simes 2p on 24-01-2010
CO, having studied legal aid in criminal cases, I would give up arguing it if I was you.
Iwish, you make a claim for costs and if she is on benefits, the money will come from 'Central Funds'
Criminal Law is a world apart from Family Law, so rely on your Sol and hopefully things will go well.
Added By EnglishRose on 25-01-2010
Also think about other evidence on yoru side. Who saw the children the day after or that day who might be able tos ay - cuist and bruises amnd blood is rubbish I saw the child and it was fine or I spoke to the child the next day and they said mother is making up a lot of stuff and making me lie etc etc And you may want your own expert doctor's report to refute the conclusino of theirs.
Why would the children lie about this? My children aer so strong and difficult. If I tell them to do something they would do the opposite. If I said their father was awful they'd disagree. Why are there all these weak manipulable children around who do what their mothers say? In some ways I wish I'd managed to breed one, a little compliant robot. That's not how most children I know are.
Also look at your hsitory. I have never hit or smacked a child. My parents never did and they campaigned against it even. If you had a similar hisotry of non violence and could produce 2 aunts giving evidence of your strong anti smacking views and your history of peacefulness etc then that might help too. On the other hand if you'are always smacking them then that route won't help.
Added By iwish on 25-01-2010
Thanks ER.. My ex refused me access to kids for 3 years. My youngest was born over there and she never let me see him until the courts allowed me to.
My kids are now 8,6,5. Ad they have spent so much time with her they will do what ever she says. Kids have admitted to me that we have to pretend we don't like you when we are with mummy and family.
Added By Simes 2p on 25-01-2010
ER, you have never smacked your children.
If you tell them to do something they do the opposite.
I smacked my children when appropriate.
If I tell them to do something, they do it.
Ha ha ha.
You don't need any evidence of antismacking views. You just need to show that your children don't give a damn what you tell them to do. Then it will be obvious.
Added By Captain Oates on 26-01-2010
Trying not to sound pompous self rightious. There was a study recently on this. It found that up to 7 smacking had positive life expectancy results for children like good dicipline and achievement and confidence. From 7 to 16 it had the same positive affect but resulted in children getting into fights (not so good).
Stidw probably has the full details. Think I heard it on the radio.
In my experience women are not as good at disipline as men and children need a father figure. Children do need discipline and to learn rules and the word no while having fun realising they can't run riot.
That said I found regularly smacking my son (who has aspergers) completely inappopriate and ineffectual and made him more upset. He learned discipline from the naughty room as did my daughter, with the occastional smack when very naughty or dangerous. They were in there on Sunday.
You do the best you can and hope they end out alright I think.
Added By Captain Oates on 26-01-2010
I have just read ERs statement and it is weird. If my children were like that to me I would never see them as we would have fallen out. Oh, I've just remembered that is what happened with them also. I am glad they are strong ERm, they will need to be if they do not negotiate or compromise or work in a team.
Added By Captain Oates on 26-01-2010
Simes, what was that term you were using before whereby it stressed the importance of getting on with ex and turning the other cheek towards being happier and having a solution of child contact which worked please? No I am not taking the p*ss.
I am trying to use it again and would like to remember the term, would find it helpful. Something like, positive relationship building, or something. Perhaps mutual determination or the benefits of active holistic support or something. Is the Holy Grail of sorting out contact with ex with regards to how to treat her / him / get on.
Added By Stuart on 26-01-2010
Never hit my son....never needed to....
Always found locking him in a dark cupboard and not feeding him for a week did the trick....lol...
Added By Captain Oates on 26-01-2010
You've been talking to my ex - she thinks that about me :) .
Another option is holding them under water for a while. Also tends to do the trick. Perhaps my ex has a point and I need to look at my parenting. Joking.
Added By Captain Oates on 26-01-2010
Waterboarding perhaps, plausable denyability that one, especially if it happens in Egypt.
Added By Melly53 on 27-01-2010
Regarding informing your employer, as you work for a council I would be very careful about who you talk to about this and what you say, especially if your job brings you into contact with agencies such as the police, social service, domestic violence unit. You could easily be suspended for the 'probability of bringing the council into disrepute'. Councils work on probability, not fact! Read your code of conduct and contract and see if anything is specified. My partner worked for a council who suspended him after his ex wife sent texts to his work that accused him of repeated domestic violence (untrue). At the time he and his ex were both on bail for domestic violence (she had attacked him, police were called and when they arrested her, she made the allegations which meant they had to arrest him and check it out). No charges were made against either of them. He did not mention anything about this to his boss as his boss was a bully who did not like him. However, even though the code of conduct did not specify he had to report being on bail, once his ex sent the texts, 3 months after all this happened, all hell broke loose and he was suspended for 7 months whilst it was investigated. Even though he was never charged with anything by the police, he still ended up being dismissed for the 'probability of bringing the council into dispute' as there was the 'probability of it getting in to the local newspapers' Load of tosh but it happened. It was an awful time. Luckily he had a great union and an even greater union barrister who fought his dismissal at the tribunal and my partner won and was awarded compensation, etc. However, the fact that he was dismissed is now something he has to declare everytime he applies for a job although he can add that he won his case for unfair dismissal but it still needs explaining. I can't help you re anything else with your kids other than confirm what others are saying, get yourself a fantastic lawyer, use your credit card to pay if necessary, get a bank loan, do anything to get the money to pay for one as your whole life and future is dependant on the outcome. Good luck.
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